Counter-this-comp THREAD [theorycrafting]

  • #1

    Hi. I haven't seen such thread in a long time, so I wanted to create a new one. It's about theorycrafting, focusing on countering comps, explaining why, adding own tips, and entering own comp some other guy has to comment, criticize and counter. It might help a lot of fresh players to understand game mechanics, what is a counter ,how to build teams around champions, how to predict events, it's progress etc. I'll start:

    Today my ranked 5v5 ( Warwick, Ryze, Nocturne, Graves, Janna) lost against such team:

    Lee Sin,

    Cho'gath (jungle, lee was top)

    Kennen

    Ashe

    Taric

     

    As a matter of fact, we threw the game hard, allowing them to catch up and eventually take the lead, but that's not the case. Thing is, we couldn't get to kennen the moment he bought Zhonya. Our short range was our doom, we had to be in ultimate range to do fight. Warwick couldnt ult Kenny, he was insta interupted by others.

     How would you counter such comp and why? Also don't forget to add your own comp at the end of the post, let's keep the knowledge grow :)

      

  • #2

    hmm, well i'd have to say your best shot is to play an aggressive support bot. i,e Leona or Naut. Along woth maybe an Ez for a counter lane.

    yeah You definitly need range to get to kennen. A ranged stun or a rammus flash taunt on kennen would be a good solution to the kennen problem. Seeing Cho is week early you could also go with an early invade steal blue and set him back.

    i'd say

    Top: Swain/Vlad

    Jungle: Rammus

    Mid: Talon (Have trouble laning against a talon)

    Support Leona/Naut (Ideally leona for AOE stun)

    Bot AD: Ezreal

    Onto my comp

    Hows this for a ripper ;D

    Top: Darius

    Jungle: Twitch

    Mid: Veiger

    Bot Support: Alistar

    Bot carry: On-hit Teemo

    Bot lane dominates as ali tanks the damage and onhit teemo prospers. Ban Lee Sin for a good jungle for twitch and I doubt the enemy team would invade vs an alistar. (Twitch starts red lvl 2 gank mid) get Veiger fed from twitches ganks and Darius can deal with the majority of tops.)

    Gimme your thoughts Guys :D

     

     

     

     

  • #3

     

     Top: Udyr -  sheild and sustain too high for darius to be able to 1v1

    Jungle: Nautalis - counter ganks twitch will jsut get shreded. go to end game and twitch becomes usless

    Mid: Morgana - black sheild veigar stun and push all day in lane to make veigar lose cs. Black sheild too strong on your initiating tank

    Support: Janna - slows F up alistar and has the peel factor agasint a twitch or even alistar. Your comp has barley any gap closers, so your ad carry shall be protected easily

    AD: Kogmaw - the range will be too much for teemo. Jann sheild will protect enough from the blind. Janna's slow plus kogs slow will make it easy to be protected from alistar. taking cleanse would be ideal to get rid of teemo blind and veigar's stun, basially making teemo worthless

    your team focuses on early game, but but if you get to late, or even mid, your done. teemo will be dishing out a pitiful amount of damage building on hit at a low range, both damage and range nothing compared to kog. janna will surley get oracle pretty early, needing the least amount of gold out of all the supports, making twitch completley worthless. naut + morg ult will be devistating to your squishy team, while kog safley fires away melting down any target he pleases becasue of you ow range. veigar wil be usless becasue of he low farm thanks to morg's pushing. the only initiation you have is darius. if he doesnt grab kog, he will be slowed by kog'e and and janna, and should be taked down super fast.

     

     

     

     

    Last edited by Pistallion: 6/9/2012 7:49:05 AM
  • #4

    hi well since Pistallion did not post a new team comp i will make one

    bans : noc, soraka, ahri

     

    Poke Team Comp

    shyvana/naut -> jungle: shyvana in team fights: can stay in front and can give my team enaugh time to cover some space and gets out of bad situations realy easy

    naut can doy the same but he just stays in front and keeps the enemy away from my team with this massiv cc

    nidale ap top: dosent mather if he falls behind if she gets counterd as long she gets some farm and dose not feed and even if he dies 2~3  times this team comp can even win with less money as long all get there core items =)

    mid ap kog for long range poke

    ad carry: cait or sivir for even greater poke

    support: janna (must have) (can reset fights and if he bumps up some1 nidale will hit him for sure+ap kog thats means dead as long kog has his rylais

     

    downside on this team comp: needs a well trained team

     

    Last edited by nijay87: 6/11/2012 11:35:41 AM
  • #5

    That's a hard one. If noc wouldn't be banned, I would definitely pick him, for his spellkit.

     The downside of this team is that when your enemies hard-engage on you, it's hard to disengage without, but then again, there comes janna with her ult. I recently started to look for such things as poke potential, and therefore, I would either pick or ban kogmaw/cait before they do. As for the countercomp itself, I guess I would go with the following line-up:

    Top lane - Malphite - his ultimate might be the key to catch teamfights.

    Jungle - Dr. Mundo  -you need solid tank to soak up all that 1st line poke damage, before you engage

    Mid lane - Morgana - low cooldown, high range Q to pick off targets. But what's most important, her spellshield will prevent janna from pushing her back, allowing her to jump into the battle, ult and shield/zhonya, possibly stunning some enemies. Kog/Cait/Nidalee are extremely squishy.

    Ad carry - I guess I would go with the Corki, he can Valkyrie into the fight, which is important vs poke comp. Also, his AoE spells and true damage does a nice rampage.

    Support  - First thought, Leona. Can't think of a better support that can actually initiate a fight. Maybe even blitzcrank could work, if he could luckily grab janna or one of the pokers, that would be awesome.

     

    As long as Janna is unable to cast her ult, your poke comp disengage abilities are quite limited, aside from Cait E i guess and kogmaw's slow. In my opinion, hard engage comp works wonders vs pokers, assuming that pokers will do some sort of mistake, allowing enemies to catch someone. 

     

    My comp:

    Bans: Soraka, Lee Sin, Akali

     Top: Shen

    Jungle: Nautilius

    Mid: Karthus

    AD: Ashe:

    Support: Taric

     Basically team plays for late game, where Karthus does massive damage, and 4 other members  makes sure Karth can walk freely. They have 2 stuns, aoe taunt, aoe slow w/ armor+mr reduction, snare, hook, aoe knockup. What would you do?

     

    Btw I like how this thread got some attention. 

  • #6

    Am I allowed to post twice?

    I'll presume so so here goes.

    To counter that comp ou would have to go with a mid who can shut karthus down whilst saving an ally.Morganna is ideal for tis with easy farmin, good teamfighting and a spellshield of awesomeness to protect against Karthus's ult and ashes arrow with fast enough reactions. Fizz would also work with the untargetable dodging karthus's ult.

    I would have jungle Noct for the ult to jump on karthus (Presuming this is the karth that is aiming to stay alive in teamfights, not die for his passive) and a spellshield for easy ult dodge.

    Top: With the noct initiate, we just need someone to protect our beloved Morganna and AD Carry, whilst also dealing out some good damage. For this reason I chose Garen.

    AD Bot: I'd go with Sivir or Ezreal. Ezreal for the Poke and strong teamfight AoE ult. Sivir for the spellshield and awesome boomarang with team speed increase.

    Support: Zilean: Revive whoever karthus's ult was going to kill ;D and that awesome harass down bot on ashe speed increase if something ever went wrong ;D

     

    On to my Comp :D

    Top: AD Sion

    Mid: Karma

    Jungle: Rammus

    AD: Ashe

    Support: Alistar

    Everyone Get dem kills for Sion.

  • #7

    @ apricota i though about banning morgana  but want to give a easy farm lane for kog

     

    and dont forget about naut'ss can also counter alot of incomming enemies and kog maw's slow is crazy

    i woud recommend picking irelia top and ahri mid maybe urgot bot and jarvan jungle

     

     

    @Plumoe

     

    shen (counterganking rammus+greatutility) kennen top - range herrase great TF utility with zonya(against ali^.^)

    Anivia mid stops every engades from rammus and counters kama perfectly

    jungle shyvana/lee mainly counterjungling / counterganking to put rammus far behind

    ad urgot/graves

    support lulu(ulti will save everytime thead carry and has a low cd+ if ash arrow hits the carry she will just shout down ash)soraka(armor heal sustain)taric (lots of armor for the ad carry + stun+heal)

     

     

     

    new team comp

    bans: olaf irelia kog maw

     

    top: shen/lee/udyr

    mid ryze

    jungle lee mundo naut

    ad: urgot

    support: ali soraka taric lulu

    a classic tank team comp

    Last edited by nijay87: 6/11/2012 11:35:19 AM
  • #8

    For @nijay87

    I would focus on a team that has disengage but can create picks since a team like shen ryze naut urgot ali can put lockdown but with the right disengage would get no kills

    top jayce

    mid ahri

    jungle cho gath or j4

    ad cait/ezreal/trist

    support zyra leona tresh or sona trying to fp leona or thresh

    ideally the games would have high vision (5 people buy pinks)

    and lots of jayce E disengage such that only during a charm hit is there actually a full on burst on that target and when that target is caught if the enemy engages then zyra puts down the ult and cho/j4 start their peel factory as most times the team just kites

    zyra/cait lane is OP for high pressure and cho has excellent counter ganks jayce is fine being left alone with the right wards from cho and ahri is a safe high skillcap lane in mid where star player can outplay other teams mids I would play the ahri

    My usual go to build would be high pressure aoe comp

    bans: twisted fate, shen, (ban sona or leona if we fp so only one of those 2 is up) otherwise ban zac

    first pick leona or sona depending if leona banned

    ad would be safe ad hopefully with caster (graves/ezreal but cait or trist if others unsafe)

    jungle would be either cho/hec/j4 depnding on bans

    top would be rumble if we get j4 or zed/kha if we get cho/hec

    mid would be ori if we get hecarim and either diana or lux if not

    the idea is to have stronger lanes that have potential to 1v2 in case of swaps while holding cc/aoe/and disengage for classic hard engage aoe comp (lux shield op for this kind of thing so she would be picked 2nd over the j4/rumble combo picks)

    edit: lux would have TP in case of splitpush potentials same if had diana top or kha top

     

    Last edited by fedbickham: 5/1/2013 1:54:13 PM
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