Comments

  • #79 ErnestBedford

    This needs updating. Graves requires hurricane to proc his dash faster. I also prefer a bloodthirster in most cases to bork, unless two or more opponents have high HP. Also rather armor penetration marks and quints, and mp5 seals to fix his mana problems. Agree with glyphs and the rest of the guide.

  • #73 bindmind

    What are people's thoughts on Blade of the Ruined King for Graves since the nerf?I haven't been having too much success with the item as of late, to be honest.

  • #74 JioDerako

    It's pretty strong on most ADCs still, but with Graves scaling so well with stats more than on-hit effects, I think BT is still a better pickup on him. (BotRK doesn't add much to his Q.)
    BotRK is of course still a go-to item to counter health-stacking though, so if you're dealing with big health bars, it will always have value. Gotta pick between the two based on what you think you'll be hitting most of the time. Pushing towers, bursting squishies? BT. Health-stacking bruisers and tanks, beefy carries (APs with RoA, etc)? BotRK.

    Personally, I like BotRK, but I'm mostly using it on Tristana right now; my other ADCs are Miss Fortune and Ashe, the former works better with BT for her ultimate and the latter wants Shiv and IE ASAP in most cases. And with Trist, I of course grab the lifesteal component as fast as I can, but depending on how fast the game is progressing, I don't rush to finish BotRK; I might pick up pieces of my other items first. BotRK is mostly important to have once you start dealing with the enemy bruisers, or everybody's getting more levels and thus more health (if I'm snowballing early, I might prefer to grab a BT sword instead for the raw AD, since it's going to pack a bigger punch before my opponents start working on building HP).
    If you're having limited success with the item yourself, perhaps it's something similar; you're snowballing a bit and grabbing it early, and nobody's got enough HP for the on-hit to be worthwhile. Or it's simply not adding enough to your burst, and you're not getting enough chances to put out sustained damage and really capitalize on it.

    ----   Geo - a.k.a. Jio Derako
    I theorycraft harder than I play.

  • #75 bindmind

    I've been grabbing it after an Infinity Edge (which I get after a vampiric scepter) as that is usually around the time I would imagine needing the on-hit effect. However, I've found just going for the standard The Bloodthirster Phantom Dancer build to be much more effective, unless the entire enemy team is made up of bruisers.

    Last edited by bindmind on 3/27/2013 12:48:52 PM
  • #76 JioDerako

    Mm, I think one of Graves' strengths is his stronger early-game, so I'd rather not go for the early IE on him; IE takes longer than BotRK or BT to finish, and it doesn't really start to kick in until you've got some more crit chance on it (generally Zeal/PD). If you're going for the crits, you'd want to focus entirely on that core ASAP, which BotRK is only going to delay; plus, the damage from BotRK isn't going to gain much from your crits, as opposed to the BT.

    I'm in agreement that the BT/PD build is generally more effective on Graves; if it's a lot of bruisers, I'd just go straight for the BotRK as my first item, then work on PD or IE afterwards depending on how things are going (Zeal is probably a good pickup early, and/or a BF Sword, and then you can itemize as needed from there).

    I forget who said it - it might have been Cop, or Chaox? - but one of the big shifts in S3 for ADCs has been the effects of the health-meta. A single Giant's Belt puts a big hurdle in the way of an ADC in early/mid game, where it used to be that an early IE made you a steamroller; the majority of the bruisers who can rush health now also don't need much AD to deal damage (Renekton has strong base damage, Singed doesn't care what items he has, etc). So the ADC needs to finish more of their build before they can become a real force to be reckoned with; this means more farming, which means more value on anything with sustain built-in. Thus BT or BotRK replacing IE as a first item, BT giving stronger sustain and farming while BotRK allows for more damage early against health-stacking. (once they go above 2k~ health, BotRK starts to deal more damage than the BT does, so it's stronger in fights.)

    ----   Geo - a.k.a. Jio Derako
    I theorycraft harder than I play.

  • #80 ErnestBedford

    Most of the time, go with a bloodthirster instead. 

  • #71 Gamer360XX

    Personally.. what do you guys think about Blade of the ruined King on Graves?

    Or what do you think on which ADC it will work well?

     

     

  • #72 drewphan

    BOTRK helps with Graves's burst.

  • #70 Tubblas

    Any opinion on "top lane" graves?...ive played it three times already...and i really enjoy it...

  • #77 Dazmode

    I'd think it would work pretty well, Graves being the "Tanky ADC" and all. 

  • #78 bindmind

    This definitely seems viable, especially with more and more pubstomp games going ADC top.

  • #68 twincessna340a

    First, great guide! I do tweak it a bit though. I max W 2nd and E last, the I find the damage and awesome harass from his W HUGE early in laning and/or a mid game team fight.

    For item build I go Berserker's Greaves -> Black Cleaver -> Infinity Edge -> Phantom Dancer -> Last Whisper -> Mercurial Scimitar .

    If I'm facing a heavy AP or CC team I'll go Merc Treads and rush Phantom Dancer.

    I personally like BC over BT, while having a lower AD....grants 200 Health, flat Armor Pen, Stacking Armor reduction, and CDR for 200 less gold. Also when LW comes around Graves will just chew people.

    Again great guide, and I'd appreciate any comments on my build!

    Last edited by twincessna340a on 2/14/2013 6:20:12 PM
  • #69 drewphan

    You need lifesteal. Also maxing W for the purpose of harassing isn't a great use of your mana. It really doesn't do enough damage worth harassing with.

    Last edited by drewphan on 2/14/2013 8:21:10 PM
  • #67 maseratigts

    Graves counter Varus :)

  • #66 Tetzar

    Hi... You should edit a misprint on the Abilities section... At quickdraw, it compares Buckshot to Vayne's Tumble... It should be Quickdraw :P 

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