• #82 OhTyphlosion

    I still feel like he's a little too easy to kill with something as glass cannon-y as this. While Cop is without a doubt a much better player than I'll ever be, and this Kog build obviously works, I think I have a viable way to keep Kog alive longer and still put out the necessary damage.

    Flash/Cleanse; Beserker's (Furor), BotRK, Bloodthirster (Sanguine Blade in 3s,) Phantom Dancer, Frozen Mallet, Banshee's Veil.

    3000 health, ~2 AS, 11% health damage (with W up), 33% Lifesteal (30% with Sanguine,) much harder to initiate on a Kog who has both a Banshee's Veil shield AND a Cleanse at his disposal (and, as we all know, the second a Kog gets caught the fight is pretty much over.) The Frozen Mallet provides not only a metric fuckton of health, but a noticeable AD increase, and most importantly the passive (which works perfectly in tandem with the furor enchantment). The Banshee's Veil obviously provides the excellent shield, but also gives Kog a significantly higher Mana pool so that spamming his ult is a more viable option, and an early/mid game Cata will give Kog some MUCH needed sustain, allowing him more time to go about his business in the main area of the map instead of having to go back to fountain every time he gets into a bad engage/any teamfight when he gets caught.

    I'm not sure which Runes/Masteries I would recommend running with this build, but I'd imagine Attack Speed/Movement Speed and either flat or scaling MR and Armor, depending on personal preference. I came up with this build idea while brainstorming a decent 3s comp (btw, that comp is Kog, Singed, Nunu, but it has some severe CC issues :/), and it seemed to me to be a decent way to improve someone who is inherently counter-tanky (Kog's W DOES do % max health damage, after all) and make him more viable in a 3s situation, when a normally built Kog (such as the type of Kog cop builds in this guide) could get wiped out after one bad decision.

    What's inherently wrong with this build? Is the % max health damage worth the significant drop in the actual AD from a standard build? Is there a better way to build a tankier sort of ADC?

    Last edited by OhTyphlosion: 5/4/2013 4:23:37 PM
  • #83 HomerX221

    Better pick kog when you have some protection, this build provides low damage because your crits don't hit a lot without IE and you don't have a last whisper to protect against armor.

  • #84 OhTyphlosion

    Well, yeah, but that's the reason for the % max health damage. If his W is up he's doing 11% health per attack + his AD, and at 2 attacks every second (even more with a nunu buff...) it'll take like 5 seconds to take pretty much anyone down 1v1 (if that's actually how it works, anyway.) I do think that replacing the Frozen Mallet with an IE would be a good idea as far as maximizing damage output with this build goes, but overall I feel like this Kog build provides more reliable DPS for a longer amount of time, as opposed to the typical Kog build which does insane amounts of damage but which is also incredibly easy to deal with if you catch him out.

    *Note: Everything about this build is dependent on that % max health damage to make up for the lost AD. I'm still new to the game so I don't know how everything works exactly, but is there any way to ignore the % max health damage? Does a higher armor rating protect against it, or is the max health damage always going to do that % damage regardless?

    Last edited by OhTyphlosion: 5/5/2013 7:41:38 PM
  • #80 Beeeaaast

    Hey Cop, it says "and finish the build with a Mercurial Scepter" xD

  • #78 fernymerk

    no BotrK?

  • #79 KyoIchiban

    Quote from fernymerk »

    no BotrK?

    I agree on Kog'Maw since he is such a late game carry BotrK would be viable.  Personal my order would be  Doran's Blade, Berserker's Greaves, Vampiric Scepter, finish The Bloodthirster, Phantom Dancer, BotrK.  That build seems to me more viable than boots and pots from the start because even though you don't have that early game move speed, you still have some early game damage and hp so you can still sustain your lane and only back whenever necessary. 

    Last edited by KyoIchiban: 3/10/2013 11:47:42 PM
  • #81 KjarRokulaine

    boots and pots vs doran's blade? Either works, it depends more on how you play kog, really. If you want the extra damage, go blade. If you want mobility, boots. So, tbh, it depends more on how you play kog against certain champs.

  • #76 gf2tw

    I've done some calculations recently and found that Kog'maw is better off getting a Statik Shiv than a Last Whisper in both the case of a tank with 4K health and 200 armor/150 MR, as well as a squishy with 2500 health, 100 armor and 70 MR. The difference isn't amazing, but I didn't factor in the damage from Statik Shiv yet. This was mostly due to upping your crit chance from 55% to 75% and your attack speed from 1,629 to 1,895, making your W proc more often. 

    I still think Last Whisper can be a decent item but only if your opponent also has huge amounts of magic resist paired with his armor and health (which they usually don't at this time). If they don't, you're better off building more attack speed/crit and get more W damage

    Just some food for thought that LW isn't always the required item on every AD carry. I can imagine the same thing for Vayne.

  • #72 huffaluffagus

    Cop, have you ever tried to build kog with a AB build instead of damage so that you could just deal out the damage with your abilities instead of relying on your auto attack? and also the fact that if you build him with deathcap, deathfire, mercurial, sorceror's shoes, thornmail, and zeke's herald you can have more survivablity, and damage output?

  • #73 SoftK1tty

    Obviously I'm not Cop, but my advice:-

    AP Kog is a legitimate middle lane, though still weak early game like AD. I'm sure NyJacky has an AP Kog guide on here.

    As for Thornmail, it's a bad choice for defense in the current meta. You're better off buying health instead of resistances e.g. warmogs

    Zeke's Herald is something your support should be picking up, not yourself.

    For survivability, you want life steal and attack speed e.g. BT + PD (with the buff to BotRK in the next patch, you might want that instead of BT against a tanky team)

    Last edited by SoftK1tty: 2/19/2013 9:49:43 AM
  • #74 KjarRokulaine

    AP kog might be viable, but I'm pretty sure it's outclassed by the other potential mids out there.

    Also, would FRozen Mallet be a viable alternative to Last Wisper? It has comparable AD plus health. So I'm thinking that it's LW's passive vs FM's health and slow.


  • #75 HomerX221

    Most people will get armor at some point of the game, this is why in 99.9% of the games carries get LW.FM isn't that useful for kog, even though it helps kiting, it is better to get a warmogs for health or a BotrK for damage.If you want a slow, play ashe, not kog...

  • #77 KjarRokulaine

    Thanks for the advice!

  • #71 NiceBucky

    Hey guys

    Yesterday I had to be an ADC and I used Kog'Maw, but i had Tiget Stance Udyr runes (AD marks and Movement Speed Quints) and I found out it is very useful on Kog since he is really slow, with boots you move about 371 (with quints) and I think it is great even if you lose 6 AD, I was able to move better and If we were ganked on bot we could escape way easier.

    Any opinions if it is a good idea?

  • #66 HeavenArt

    Hi, I would like to ask you how do you deal with so many gap closers in the game now a days... I mean I can easily win against a team that as no gap closers but if the enemy team as a fizz or an akali, I know my game is ruined.

    I'm asking this in solo q perspective meaning, I have a team of cowards where top is trying to build an ad carry build and mid is a lb (for example)... Usually if the team actually plays well you can hide behind them and dish out dmg while staying out of range, although if the fizz or akali want they can just use their skills to get closer to you in no time. I'm still testing how to properly play your build (specially because I didn't get QQS) but still this the biggest problems I face in game are the gap closers and when their team understands that all they have to do to win is kill me and the game is over for me (this is probably bad positioning but it is hard when you tank doesn't engage and hides behind you)...

    Last edited by HeavenArt: 1/26/2013 10:00:41 AM
  • #69 Cop

    Rely on your support to help you with exhaust and kill who ever is jumping on you. If you can't rely on them, kite as perfectly as you can and you should be fine. Drop your E and poke them up.

  • #70 HeavenArt

    Thanks for the quick answer.

    So basically I need to rely on the support or be even more cautious. I do drop E but I tend to use it as an help for the TF itself a non moving enemy team kinda help my team ^^

    As a counter for this assassins I end up coming late to the TF (basically I wait for them to stop waiting for me) but this might compromise my role as an ad carry, do you think I should stop acting this way and just focus on basic kiting?

  • #65 KjarRokulaine

    Kog really needs that early farm and health to stay in there longer. If anything, he should drop one pot and get a mana pot.

  • #67 SoftK1tty

    Surely a long sword + pots would help do that? The long sword would make it easier to farm, and then building it into vamp scepter would give him the sustain in lane.

  • #68 HomerX221

    he probably won't go back till 6, to survive before it, it is better to get boots to be safer in lane.

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