Comments

  • #63 maxlog4068

    I dont really agree on skill order i take my E fire then Q because when your jungleing you need to deal damage to all monsters not 1. I also thing your E should be fire then W THEN Q for ganking. Just some advice dude but over all its pretty good.

  • #65 calebjkim13

    with the update a while ago dealing single target damage to the main monster is more effective than a smaller aoe attack so people get q because if u q -> smite> aa> q then u do more damage because the percent damage from the second q.

    also when ganking u either want to w to ur teammate who initiates for u then e then q or if u go in ur self u can q for the gap closer or just walk up and e, but it all depends on the positioning of the enemy and ur teammate.

  • #53 thechosenone124

    This is probably a really dumb question but screw it. With the season 4 changes, is Lee sin support viable? Early game, his aggression puts Leona to shame (also if he screws up he can pull out unlike Leona) and he has a very good reason to rush sightstone. Late game, where jungle Lee Sin usually falls off, support Lee Sin shines with his immense utility and ability to jump in kick someone and jump out, possibly after applying his AOE debuff to the entire enemy team. 

  • #66 calebjkim13

    lee sin would work with his slow sheild and ult in botlane, but he offers very little protection to ur adc besides the sheild and kick (for peeling), and late game an underfarmed lee can literally only slow and kick, while doing no damage. If u play him top or jungle u still have the aoe slow and kick, but u do a ton more damage (or can soak more damage if u go tank). For the sightstone even if u don't play him support it still works well, but it's not a must have in certain situations.

  • #68 thechosenone124

    But the support isn't supposed to deal damage late game. We look at Lulu, Leona, and the like, and while they can shred someone early, they're late game damage is below par, yet they are still viable. His shield and AS debuff allows him to peel averagely, and his late game kicks provide a lot of utility (and yes, you are going tank. There is no other route for a melee support)

  • #51 TheRipperNL

    couldn't disagree more with this guide. You try to build a bit of both with the runes/masteries and starting item build. This does not optimize lee sins gameplay. You either start 2 lifesteal quints with 1 ad quint, ad marks with 1 crit mark, armor yellow and flat MR blue.Starting with dorans blade and a proper pull can make way for some plays lvl 2 invading or a strong lvl 3 countergank on top. Get another DB on your first back and you got all the earlygame power you need for a while to make plays and deal the damage. having 21/9/0 masteries also optimize his early game even more so to have that early presence (since that is what lee sin is all about).

    Other buildpath would be going Flat ad quints, ad marks + 1 crit mark, flat armor yellow and flat MR blue. Building tank/utility lee sin with 9/21/0 masteries and Maxing R>E>W>Q with 2 points in Q early also does the job better then what you suggest. Starting machette 5 pots for sustain and building out to stone elder/eagis/locket. Fit in damage + MR(hydra/spirit visage +LW) or get more tanky (randuin).

    That's just my 2 cents on playing almost 2.2k games lee sin so far

  • #67 calebjkim13

    I disagree with your rune choices because lee sin already has decent lifesteal with his second w so getting lifesteal quints would be wasted space that could be used for flat ad quints. Also I believe that getting a crit mark on him is not necessary because u rarely build any crit on lee so getting just a tiny bit of crit percentage will get u like 1 crit every 100 aa. I know in ur second rune choices u have flat ad quints, but I feel that the crit is pointless. Also for ur second build path i would proabably max q or w mainly because q does more damage than e and w provides better gap close/ defense while e does have the slow, it's pointless if u don't have the damage to get them during the slow or the defense to run away.

  • #48 Jigou

    Everytime some random soloq lee goes 5 boots and sightstone a puppy dies.

  • #47 XxCoDNinja428xX

    Just wanted to post this since this is the only Jungle guide on this site, what do you guys think of this build for a hybrid of tank and damage (damage early game (first 10 mins) and build tanky mid game (10-20 mins), and all out damage mid to late game (20-xx mins)

    Starting items - 

    Hunter's Machete & Health Pots x5

    Mid Game - 

    Wriggle's Lantern -  The Black Cleaver - Sell wriggles for Ninja Tabi - Warmog's Armor

    Late Game -

    Frozen Mallet - Ravenous Hydra - Blade of the Ruined King

     

    Full build end game - 

    Ninja Tabi - The Black Cleaver - Warmog's Armor - Frozen Mallet - Ravenous Hydra - Blade of the Ruined King

    Last edited by XxCoDNinja428xX: 9/6/2013 10:27:01 PM
  • #49 ElementalMaster7

    There's no Entropy on Summoner's Rift. I'm pretty sure Riot made it very clear these past few months (or years). And I don't think a Berserker's is necessary.

  • #50 XxCoDNinja428xX

    Changed it around, switched out Berserker's for Ninja Tabi, and Entropy for Frozen Mallet. Thanks, by the way. I didn't realize Entropy wasn't a SR item. I think I played ARAM when I came up with this... Better now?

    P.S I was thinking about adding a Bloodthirster instead of Frozen Mallet, but I chose Mallet over BT, again, opinions help, as I'm new to builds.

    Last edited by XxCoDNinja428xX: 9/6/2013 10:28:09 PM
  • #46 Quych

    if i were to go with the tanky/support build and need a damage item, i find that the gunblade has more to offer as a last item, than the bt. When you have alot of resistances, and locket+w you will benefit alot with lifesteal+spellvamp for crazy sustain. Furthermore the ap contribute to your w (it actually has 1,6 ratio so its not that bad). When that is said you also have the passive which helps you to kite and peel for your carry, and helps chasing.

    Now the last part about it is the thing that sells it out for me. When i do teamfights as lee, i rarely get to many auto attacks of before jumping around again. With the spellvamp from gunblade you get ridicolous sustain from q, ult, e and also smite.

    So gunblade vs. BT i dont think that gunblade is bad, but if your last item should be offensive, i think the utility and sustain of the gunblade wins over the bloodthirster if youre going full support/tank build.

    However i dont recommend rushing it, as it works best when you have maxed your w and a bit of resistances.

  • #52 TheRipperNL

    thing is. you can have so much Spellvamp/lifesteal you want. but if you dont deal damage you arent going to drop them down. i'd rather get a Last Whisper with a Ravenous Hydra for lategame splitpush threat and AoE damage when either initiating or peeling. Add Stone elder/Locket and Randuin you're pretty much setteled against AD burst. If you're mainly facing AP threat then the spirit visage works wonders in sustained fights while Maw will with AP burst damage in teamfights.

    The item paths suggested are all dependant on :

    1 how fed you are, 2 how fed are they, 3 what is their main source of damage, 4 what role do i fullfill in my team. This is why theorycraft on item builds is good but not as optimal if you don't calculate the other variables with it.

  • #44 Basinator

    You can also choose to start a route opposite to your enemies starting path and counter jungle him with one buff.(ie start red and invade enemy blue when he/she started red)

    Why don't start enemy buff then?

    Eh Saint, in case you are reading here, are you any active at ROG forums?

  • #43 OhTyphlosion

    i listen to pinkerton when i play lee sin

  • #42 whitestcop

    so after the lcs i saw that the sight-stone was just CRAZY with lee. would u recommend building that in every case with the way that he was played and just seeing how well it worked?

     

  • #40 suljokodajs

    lee sucks in TF  so ih u have chanse go win fast a game . tnx

     

  • #41 ThePowerOfAura

    He actually has a ton of utility to offer, nothing outstanding like Zyra/Orianna ult etc, but Dragon's Rage and tempest can be very useful. Also if you can manage to kick an enemy carry into your team, that's pretty much a won teamfight. For whatever reason everyone hates Lee Sin, and they will instantly focus you in teamfights, build tanky and take advantage of this! With the bulk you have the durability to use your utility to it's best potential. The only time that Lee is downright bad in a teamfight, is if you've built glass cannon assassin and are diving like crazy trying to instagib their carry. Although what you said is true, if you can pick up the early win without too many teamfights, you definitely should haha

    Best of luck with Lee ^-^

    Last edited by ThePowerOfAura: 5/4/2013 7:19:22 PM
  • #34 Xtr3me1

    Your build seems more AD orientated then a normal game runs. I know you're good at ranked and all, but sometimes an ADC cannot carry. This guide looks more like a team support champ. Ganks won't be effective enough if you can't deal enough damage to help land a kill. You soak damage but offer little threat in a 1v1. I'm definitely open to objective/helpful criticism on this comment from either crs_saintvicious or from the community. I'm very new to Lee Sin and very new to jungle. (Lee Sin was bought yesterday and only tested builds in custom games. The build I lean towards now is 9/21 mastery to soak damage from jungle and ganks. I run flat AD reds and quints, flat armor yellows, and MR/lvl blues. Items for full build (after selling Wriggles) would look like this. (Obviously Wriggles offer's that free flash when not on CD, damage for Dragon/Baron)

    -Not in build order- (just where i place my items for actives)

    Blade of the Ruined King - Offers life steal, active, and good vs HP champs. Though not as useful since Lee Sin isn't an auto attack champ, the slow is nice.

    Mercurial Scimitar - Offers MR and attack damage. The QSS helps on heavy CC teams.

    Frozen Mallet - Offers some slight AD, Health, and a slow.

    Guardian Angel - Good MR/Armor plus revenge for deaths.

    Mercury's Treads - For more MR plus Tenacity.

    Last Whisper - For tanky champs when Black Cleaver wont suffice. 

    Zephyr is my favorite for melee champs since it offer's so much good stuff. 25AD,50AS,10%MS,10%CD, and Tenacity. Sounds useful and all, since it can free up choice of boots, but I'm not sure it's that useful for Lee Sin.

    The Bloodthirster is a fun item since more AD, but it's more of a troll item I think. Good AA plus works well with W.

    I often wonder if a Trinity Force would be useful. Mana is useless from Sheen, but the passive seems legit. Zeal for the AS/MS. and Phage for life/slow/20AD. Would free slots from Frozen Mallet for something else needed. Although very pricey, could be a late game item since Lee Sin is a skill spammer. (Yes I will receive rage from Trinity Force, but it's still an option.) 

    Wriggles can be kept. The free ward every 3 minutes is very useful. It's a decent build. Offer's quite a bit of everything without being a full tank. Thoughts?

    Last edited by Xtr3me1: 3/24/2013 11:52:55 AM
  • #35 ThePowerOfAura

    As you said, the bulk of Lee Sin's damage doesn't come from auto attacks, it comes from his abilities. Your build is quite inefficient in terms of building him for damage, which it seems you're doing. In that case, Bloodthister is CORE on any damage based Lee Sin, BotRK is considered the "troll" item for him to run for a few reasons

    1. His passive gives him +40% AS, building attack speed on Lee is really not efficient, considering you have very respectable AS by the end of the game assuming you're utilizing your passive properly.

    2. His damage is based on his E (E) -> auto -> Q -> R -> Q combo, which isn't benefited at all from attack speed, hence pure AD is preferred.

    3. When farmed the Bloodthirster will give significantly more LS than a BotRK does.

    Next up. Trinity force. This is a viable choice, however, it is typically outclassed by BT in terms of the amount of damage added to his combo. Unless you're going "all in" on an opposing champion and are properly weaving flurry with abilities, the Bloodthirster's superior AD outshines the trinity procs. If you need further explanation, his full combo scales with AD, E (.6) Q(1.8) R(2.0). An unfarmed BT will give 40 more bonus AD than a trinity for less price, therefore his combo would increase by 42 (E) + 70 (AA) + 126 (QQ) + 140 (R) = 378 damage as opposed to 18 (E) + 30 (AA) + 170 (TF proc at level 18) + 54 (QQ) + 60 (R) = 332 damage. So basically your combo will have 46 more damage with BT (3200g) as opposed to TF (3843g). The only scenario that TF is superior to BT is if you are building tanky DPS, and will be on the front lines constantly auto attacking and getting TF procs.

    Mercurial Scimitar is actually a nice item on Lee, however it is often compared to items like Maw of Malmortius. Maw has less AD and MR, and it doesn't have a built in cleanse, however it does provide a very nice shield comparable to a Banshee's veil, the 400 damage prevented is typically much more significant than the minor amount that would be blocked by the Mercurial's superior MR. Also the other passive is pretty nifty as well, and if you are low on health towards the end of a fight, it typically will provide a bit more AD.

    So next up is Frozen Mallet.. I actually am not the best person to make a judgement on this, I feel as though you don't really need anymore "sticking" power between your Q and E, and the slow from your E gives you plenty of time to kick them back to your team (or just away from their tower) for securing the kill. It's definitely a popular and viable choice though, and I pick it up occasionally if I built an early phage, but outside of that I wouldn't recommend it because of how far it can set back your build.

    Last Whisper... this item is solid, if you're very late in the game and need to deal a bit more damage to that carry who bought a GA, this isn't a bad idea. I feel as though Cleaver can be just as effective though, especially considering each of the abilities in your combo reduces their armor (auto -> Q -> R -> Q). Early in the game, Brutalizer is a great item on Lee Sin, the CDR on a max'd Q often means you will be able to use your Q twice in a single gank, and the 25 AD is VERY nice if you're getting ahead. Last Whisper is probably more effective Late game, however you typically already have a Brutalizer, so it is usually more efficient to simply upgrade at that point.

    I think you are right about Zephyr on Lee Sin, it isn't the most appropriate item for him. As I stated earlier, attack speed isn't the most effective stat for Lee, and you should be building Mercury Treads for Lee, so the tenacity is wasted. The movespeed is the main perk of this item. If you insist on using this, get it with phage -> trinity and you'll be VERY sticky, VERY fast, and will be able to auto attack enough to activate trinity procs consistently (outclassed by other Bruisers imo). You should probably pick up Mercurial, Maw, or Spirit Visage (the number of viable MR items for Lee Sin is ridiculously low) for the MR to stand up to AP champs.

    Guardian's Angel is great if you're getting VERY fed, and have already completed BT + Brutalizer (see Voyboy's guide ^-^) it's a great 5th item if your team is depending on you to deal out damage.

    Honestly though, this is all concerning a damage based build... as Lee Sin, your effectiveness in teamfights isn't quite as significant as it is in 1v1s and 2v2s. In full out teamfights you WILL blow up if you enter the fray. Building tanky is great with Lee, as it allows you to dive in, make the plays, and get out alive! You should really try to think of yourself as a supporter with Lee, when you gank, try to give your laner the kill, as in the late game it will benefit them much more than you! As much as it sucks, you kinda have to learn to love your team mates with Lee, as they're the ones who will carry you in the late game.

    With Lee your build really changes game to game, but a standard game (not fed and not significantly behind, not vs all AD/AP) would build like this:

    Hunter's machete + 5 start -> Wriggles -> Merc treads -> Brutalizer -> Locket -> Hexdrinker -> Randuin's -> Maw of Malmortius -> Black Cleaver

    Skipping the damage items and building tanky if behind, or rushing BT after Brutalizer if significantly ahead.

    Anyways, hope this helps you out with Lee!

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