Comments

  • #40 suljokodajs

    lee sucks in TF  so ih u have chanse go win fast a game . tnx

     

  • #41 ThePowerOfAura

    He actually has a ton of utility to offer, nothing outstanding like Zyra/Orianna ult etc, but Dragon's Rage and tempest can be very useful. Also if you can manage to kick an enemy carry into your team, that's pretty much a won teamfight. For whatever reason everyone hates Lee Sin, and they will instantly focus you in teamfights, build tanky and take advantage of this! With the bulk you have the durability to use your utility to it's best potential. The only time that Lee is downright bad in a teamfight, is if you've built glass cannon assassin and are diving like crazy trying to instagib their carry. Although what you said is true, if you can pick up the early win without too many teamfights, you definitely should haha

    Best of luck with Lee ^-^

    Last edited by ThePowerOfAura on 5/4/2013 7:19:22 PM
  • #34 Xtr3me1

    Your build seems more AD orientated then a normal game runs. I know you're good at ranked and all, but sometimes an ADC cannot carry. This guide looks more like a team support champ. Ganks won't be effective enough if you can't deal enough damage to help land a kill. You soak damage but offer little threat in a 1v1. I'm definitely open to objective/helpful criticism on this comment from either crs_saintvicious or from the community. I'm very new to Lee Sin and very new to jungle. (Lee Sin was bought yesterday and only tested builds in custom games. The build I lean towards now is 9/21 mastery to soak damage from jungle and ganks. I run flat AD reds and quints, flat armor yellows, and MR/lvl blues. Items for full build (after selling Wriggles) would look like this. (Obviously Wriggles offer's that free flash when not on CD, damage for Dragon/Baron)

    -Not in build order- (just where i place my items for actives)

    Blade of the Ruined King - Offers life steal, active, and good vs HP champs. Though not as useful since Lee Sin isn't an auto attack champ, the slow is nice.

    Mercurial Scimitar - Offers MR and attack damage. The QSS helps on heavy CC teams.

    Frozen Mallet - Offers some slight AD, Health, and a slow.

    Guardian Angel - Good MR/Armor plus revenge for deaths.

    Mercury's Treads - For more MR plus Tenacity.

    Last Whisper - For tanky champs when Black Cleaver wont suffice. 

    Zephyr is my favorite for melee champs since it offer's so much good stuff. 25AD,50AS,10%MS,10%CD, and Tenacity. Sounds useful and all, since it can free up choice of boots, but I'm not sure it's that useful for Lee Sin.

    The Bloodthirster is a fun item since more AD, but it's more of a troll item I think. Good AA plus works well with W.

    I often wonder if a Trinity Force would be useful. Mana is useless from Sheen, but the passive seems legit. Zeal for the AS/MS. and Phage for life/slow/20AD. Would free slots from Frozen Mallet for something else needed. Although very pricey, could be a late game item since Lee Sin is a skill spammer. (Yes I will receive rage from Trinity Force, but it's still an option.) 

    Wriggles can be kept. The free ward every 3 minutes is very useful. It's a decent build. Offer's quite a bit of everything without being a full tank. Thoughts?

    Last edited by Xtr3me1 on 3/24/2013 11:52:55 AM
  • #35 ThePowerOfAura

    As you said, the bulk of Lee Sin's damage doesn't come from auto attacks, it comes from his abilities. Your build is quite inefficient in terms of building him for damage, which it seems you're doing. In that case, Bloodthister is CORE on any damage based Lee Sin, BotRK is considered the "troll" item for him to run for a few reasons

    1. His passive gives him +40% AS, building attack speed on Lee is really not efficient, considering you have very respectable AS by the end of the game assuming you're utilizing your passive properly.

    2. His damage is based on his E (E) -> auto -> Q -> R -> Q combo, which isn't benefited at all from attack speed, hence pure AD is preferred.

    3. When farmed the Bloodthirster will give significantly more LS than a BotRK does.

    Next up. Trinity force. This is a viable choice, however, it is typically outclassed by BT in terms of the amount of damage added to his combo. Unless you're going "all in" on an opposing champion and are properly weaving flurry with abilities, the Bloodthirster's superior AD outshines the trinity procs. If you need further explanation, his full combo scales with AD, E (.6) Q(1.8) R(2.0). An unfarmed BT will give 40 more bonus AD than a trinity for less price, therefore his combo would increase by 42 (E) + 70 (AA) + 126 (QQ) + 140 (R) = 378 damage as opposed to 18 (E) + 30 (AA) + 170 (TF proc at level 18) + 54 (QQ) + 60 (R) = 332 damage. So basically your combo will have 46 more damage with BT (3200g) as opposed to TF (3843g). The only scenario that TF is superior to BT is if you are building tanky DPS, and will be on the front lines constantly auto attacking and getting TF procs.

    Mercurial Scimitar is actually a nice item on Lee, however it is often compared to items like Maw of Malmortius. Maw has less AD and MR, and it doesn't have a built in cleanse, however it does provide a very nice shield comparable to a Banshee's veil, the 400 damage prevented is typically much more significant than the minor amount that would be blocked by the Mercurial's superior MR. Also the other passive is pretty nifty as well, and if you are low on health towards the end of a fight, it typically will provide a bit more AD.

    So next up is Frozen Mallet.. I actually am not the best person to make a judgement on this, I feel as though you don't really need anymore "sticking" power between your Q and E, and the slow from your E gives you plenty of time to kick them back to your team (or just away from their tower) for securing the kill. It's definitely a popular and viable choice though, and I pick it up occasionally if I built an early phage, but outside of that I wouldn't recommend it because of how far it can set back your build.

    Last Whisper... this item is solid, if you're very late in the game and need to deal a bit more damage to that carry who bought a GA, this isn't a bad idea. I feel as though Cleaver can be just as effective though, especially considering each of the abilities in your combo reduces their armor (auto -> Q -> R -> Q). Early in the game, Brutalizer is a great item on Lee Sin, the CDR on a max'd Q often means you will be able to use your Q twice in a single gank, and the 25 AD is VERY nice if you're getting ahead. Last Whisper is probably more effective Late game, however you typically already have a Brutalizer, so it is usually more efficient to simply upgrade at that point.

    I think you are right about Zephyr on Lee Sin, it isn't the most appropriate item for him. As I stated earlier, attack speed isn't the most effective stat for Lee, and you should be building Mercury Treads for Lee, so the tenacity is wasted. The movespeed is the main perk of this item. If you insist on using this, get it with phage -> trinity and you'll be VERY sticky, VERY fast, and will be able to auto attack enough to activate trinity procs consistently (outclassed by other Bruisers imo). You should probably pick up Mercurial, Maw, or Spirit Visage (the number of viable MR items for Lee Sin is ridiculously low) for the MR to stand up to AP champs.

    Guardian's Angel is great if you're getting VERY fed, and have already completed BT + Brutalizer (see Voyboy's guide ^-^) it's a great 5th item if your team is depending on you to deal out damage.

    Honestly though, this is all concerning a damage based build... as Lee Sin, your effectiveness in teamfights isn't quite as significant as it is in 1v1s and 2v2s. In full out teamfights you WILL blow up if you enter the fray. Building tanky is great with Lee, as it allows you to dive in, make the plays, and get out alive! You should really try to think of yourself as a supporter with Lee, when you gank, try to give your laner the kill, as in the late game it will benefit them much more than you! As much as it sucks, you kinda have to learn to love your team mates with Lee, as they're the ones who will carry you in the late game.

    With Lee your build really changes game to game, but a standard game (not fed and not significantly behind, not vs all AD/AP) would build like this:

    Hunter's machete + 5 start -> Wriggles -> Merc treads -> Brutalizer -> Locket -> Hexdrinker -> Randuin's -> Maw of Malmortius -> Black Cleaver

    Skipping the damage items and building tanky if behind, or rushing BT after Brutalizer if significantly ahead.

    Anyways, hope this helps you out with Lee!

  • #36 enfiende

    Good answer ThePowerOfAura.

    Lee Sin can definitely be built very offensively with not much defensive items. But that is for Lane Sin. In the jungle you wont get enough money and IF you do get very fed as jungle Lee, BT is not a troll item, it is very very good on him. But if you jungle him, 9 out of 10 games you can't afford it. As you probably know Lee Sin isn't the best late game champ. He does fall of a bit. And if you build to much damage you will just blow up as soon as the teamfights start. If you want to build Lee as a damage dealer. Pick him top or mid. 

    Also. AS is not good for Lee, it's a noobtrap. Lane Sin can build Botrk if against a tanky opponent because in lane you will get more AA of and the active is great for dueling. I still prefer BT on him when I lane him. Pure AD is just so good on him while the AS from the Botrk is kinda wasted on him. So, don't build Zephyr. It is a kinda iffy item even on those who likes AS. Lee is Probably the worst Bruiser you can build it on.

    Last edited by enfiende on 4/19/2013 9:07:35 AM
  • #37 Xtr3me1

    Thanks for the insight. I feel as though the match ups I get, support Lee offers nothing if your team cannot carry. I just feel more AD would be useful then a more tanky Lee. Thanks for the reply 

  • #32 QuickshotGG

    Just curious but what do you think about buying a sight stone early if your doing well and either forgoing one item later in your build  and grabbing a ruby sight stone or just selling the normal sight stone farther in the game? i use it every time I am doing welland it allows me to be much more aggressive because i have 4-5 free flashes every time I leave spawn

  • #33 enfiende

    Im also a big fan of this. But only if I get ahead of the other jungler. It is great on Lee since he uses wards very much. Also if you are ahead you can just ward their buffs and go make the enemy jungler miserable.

  • #38 ThePowerOfAura

    I like this item too! Late game it feels a little lackluster as an item slot, however it can be very fun if you're good at ward jumping! Don't upgrade to Ruby Sightstone until later though, as the extra ward doesn't really help unless you're warding more than your buffs.

  • #39 QuickshotGG

    I agree, i generally don't upgrade it i sell it when i reach full build and build another defensive item. In earlier team fights/ skirmishes it really helps jump into the back line to the enemy carry and it helps line up dragon rage knock ups in team fights.

  • #26 Enizeo

    What am i supposed to build when I am not snowballing? I just feel like i dont really do much when going the ordinary tank build with maybe a BC or something.

  • #28 enfiende

    Build Aegis. Always good on Lee and it's also very cheap. Good when you are not having your best game. Otherwise just go full tank/support. Locket gives you health aswell as an awesome active. It helps a lot in teamfights if you can't do much else since you are underfed.

  • #29 Enizeo

    Thanks a lot. But what am i going to build after ageis and maybe locket, wich i would btw propably get first? It's just that when i go like maybe Xin build, meaning wormog/randuin/sunfire + spirit visage and other tank stuff, on lee, i really dont do shit. I stand there, banging on their carry but i really dont deal much dmg and get kitet and in the end killed, doing not really much for my team.

    Thank you anyways, you helped quite a lot

  • #30 enfiende

    If you are not doing so well (or not getting any kills at all) you will fall of as Lee Sin. After you have built an aegis and/or locket I would go for a giants belt and upgrade into warmogs as soon as I get the money to finish it. Maybe buy Giants belt after you have bought kindelgem and before you finish Locket. Depends on if big teamfights have already started hapening. If they have, finish locket asap.

    A Lee Sin that is not fed with kills is not very good in teamfights. Thats just how it is, deal with it. If you are fed and have a BT or other damage items, go for one of the enemy carrys (AP,AD). But in the case you are asking for,  when you did not have a that great of an early game. you wont have enought damage and you will just die when you dive in. Instead of working as an assassin, Peel for your own carrys. BUT NOT ONLY THE ADC! If your ADC have failed miserably, have terrible farm and deals zero damage do not continue to peel for him. Peel for the one on your team who deals the most damage, probably your mid laner or if he is also very bad just help your top lane Darius to survive if he is the only one in your team who is fed and deals damage. Do not do as I have done to many times and think that the only one you should peel for is your ADC. Peel for the teammate with most damage output.

  • #31 Enizeo

    Thank you, that helped A LOT. But if i have to get kills to be really usefull, do you think Lee is a good hero to main (meaning in ranked)? I played Xin Zhao lately and did quite well but he got nerfed, also i dont think that nerf was TO bad... I like to jungle a lot in rankeds but i haven't quite made uo my mind which jungler is the best for low elo, that can also be played in a little higher tiers...

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