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  • #70 reborn4d

    Swain is my main ap champion

    To start - my runes and masteries :

    Runes : Quint AP/Mark Magic Pen/Seal Mana regen/Glyph AP

    Masteries 21/9/0

     

    Why AP glyph and Mana regen seal ?? because it grants me nice boost for the start (more dmg is advantage)

    Why 21/9/0 masteries ?? because this heal from defence is really worth, it gives me 36 +3% HP + HP regen (it makes you more tanky)

     

    I start with doran (stacks nice with passive + HP and AP) and 2 pots (2x HP or 1 Hp and 1 MP - depends of opponent)

    Next i build up as fast as possible Catalysator (HP + MP + nice passive : when you gain lvl it restores your HP/MP what is a nice boost in early when you get levels pretty fast)

    Then i do various, depends of my stats and opponents, i buy basic boots, chalice (basic one) and i finish RoA

    My next item is zhonya (i start with needlessly rode for nice boost) then the most of time i start basic mask of liandry

    Next i finish boots and liandry. So, with RoA stacked yet, basic chalice, zhonya, boots with magic pen and laundry swain is really powerfull

    For finish i get oftten rabaddon/athenes finish or in place of athenes i sell chalice and go something else depending of enemy team and feed.

     

    I hope you will find usefull my small guide in this comment :P

  • #64 thechosenone124

    Here's a useless tip. It is possible to keep Ravenous Flock up permanently! All you need is one item. Homeguard boots! then you're ult stays up permanently! (if you stay in the fountain). 90% of the time this is stupid, but it can be used to stack a tear faster

  • #63 Lawfultots

    "After a single tower shot and a Nevermove(W), ranged minions should be a single autoattack away from death."

    For me whenever I W the ranged minions the tower instantly kills them without an auto attack. I guess that's because I run AP blues.

  • #61 Grimdron7

    Okay, is Lux a counter to Swain? Because this week that she's been ftp she has been wrecking Swain. She out-ranges my spells and AA, she also can line up her snare,root,ulti and kill me while I have no healing, and she can absorb my DoT. I feel like she is a very strong counter to Swain.
    If not, what do I do? Because even staying at my turret is dangerous.

  • #62 JioDerako

    I wouldn't call Lux a counter, but she definitely has an advantage; she simply out-ranges him throughout the game, as you've seen. There are counterplay options; dodge her skillshots, maybe build some MR earlier (Chalice is an option, or just grab the Negatron portion of Abyssal early), and focus on farming more. It's a little tougher for Swain to get into range, but he's still got a fair amount of CC, so he can set up ganks just as easily as she can or use his abilities to deter ganks.

    I'm not really sure what good counterplay options there are, here; just avoid hugging the tower, since she'll be able to poke from a safe range and you'll be denying yourself range in the process. Try to get a gank if she pushes, farm like crazy, ... she's hard to catch thanks to her kit, but if you can get through to her, she has little options to deal with you. (Swain's ult should theoretically give him the edge in duels, so long as he can get in range; he's also a bit more formidable in teamfights, since he's got a lot more AoE than she does.)

  • #59 consistentluck

    Update plox? Wondering if dorans 2 is now a viable start on him or if the mana u get from dorans isn't enough to make it worth it and more reasonable to go flask 3, Thanks.

  • #60 JioDerako

    Dorans+2 should work well, along with Flask+3, Charm+5+1+ward, or Boots+4; it might depend more on your own playstyle, whether you get more use out of the AP and health from the Dorans or if you need the sustain from the Flask or pot-spam instead. (I think the mana from Dorans will work just fine for you, plus that little boost every time you last-hit; the more important element is probably the AP it gives you, but it's at the cost of bringing extra potions or wards.)
    Dorans, Flask and Boots all allow you to bring a ward as well, except in the Dorans instance, you don't get any pots. Depending on the jungler however, you might get more use out of the ward. (Maokai + strong damage laner, etc; it'd be more important to avoid the bind in the first place.) Boots+2+ward is probably the best bet for that though. The main deal is, without that seven-pot start anymore, you're probably going to be more efficient with some sort of item in there; you don't really need 4 mana pots or a third ward. Faerie Charm is a personal favorite of mine for most champions, since you can go Charm+5+1+ward, or Charm+4+2 wards. (assuming you're building a Tear, Chalice, or Tome at some point in the game.)

    All in all, I think Doran's is a viable start on almost everyone now that you can bring potions or a ward with it. Extra AP for your harass, mana to facilitate more harass, and a chunk of HP as a bonus. It's a more aggressive start. Swain's ratios are decent too, so he can make good use of that extra AP.
    Otherwise though, if you're not going as aggressively early, Flask+extras or Charm+extras gives you more sustain (Charm gives more sustain and utility right off the bat, Flask is more efficient after you've gone back a few times), and Boots+extras is really good against more aggressive junglers or even skillshot-heavy laners. It also gives you a bit more roaming potential, but the speed boost isn't terribly exciting otherwise.

    ^ this is all theorycrafting, by the way; I don't use Swain often. Your mileage may vary depending on your own style and preferences as well.

  • #58 underskyzx

    Made this account just to say thank you, great guide helped me a lot I was a sad bird building full AP and getting vaporized when focused now I'm a motherfucking tanky crow of death n gore !

  • #54 tiagosantana

    What do you think about top Swain? Yay or nay?

    You say that he needs to be in the front line and I usually do this for my team, so this seems like the playstyle I can bring for my team. I'm looking for some "differents" champions for top lane. (:

  • #55 Dardestin

    Extremely viable! 

    I do it all the time however my build for swain varies from this build a fair bit so it might just be me but all the core is the same at least

    And i reccommend taking Q first in top lane as most top laners will try to bully you at early levels Q provides damage if needed and the slow is great for walking

    away from that irelia that just surge bladed onto you.

    Other then that it just as if you were playing mid.... so many variances come into play with swain its just a matter of adapting to the situation

    Last edited by Dardestin: 4/28/2013 6:18:03 PM
  • #56 Chu8

    totally viable top

    in fact, I think you can go this exact runes/masteries/item setup and you will still be fine

    of course, you can make modification that suits top playstyle or your own playstyle better :D

  • #57 tiagosantana

    Ok, thank you all for the answers! <3

    Last edited by tiagosantana: 4/29/2013 6:38:51 AM
  • #53 TerraRising

    You might want to fix this guide.  You have swain's ultimate listed as an "E" instead of as an "R"

  • #47 Aldrahill

    People in the comments keep saying to build an Athene's on him, but when? You need to finish RoA early, so when do you get Chalice > Athene's? Getting that severely limits your AP, whilst meaning you can E-AA poke them a bit more. Is that a worthwhile trade?

    And what about Liandry's Torment? It's quickly becoming a very powerful and common item; I'm considering simply replacing Void Staff with it.

  • #48 JioDerako

    http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/diff-the-ender/23231-liandrys-torment-is-incredibly-strong DiffTheEnder did a nice write-up earlier comparing Liandry's and Void Staff; replacing the latter with the former seems perfectly fine on Swain, in most cases (i.e., they're not stacking MR, which is tough to do nowadays anyway).

    I think Athene's is definitely strong on him, but yeah, it's tough to fit into the build; one thing to consider is that aside from his ultimate, his abilities aren't total mana-hogs, so long as he's not spamming stuff (also considering that he should be getting blue buff the majority of the time too). With this in mind, you don't need a Chalice until at least level 6, and you could probably hold off on it for a bit longer and pick it up when you're getting closer to teamfighting time (since it effectively boosts Swain's damage in that area, by allowing him to keep his ultimate online more often; it's also giving some MR which he can always use, too).
    So long as you can get blue buffs consistently in the laning phase though, and avoid blazing through your spells too fast, I think I'd have to agree that you'd be better off picking up more early AP instead of rushing to grab a Chalice. So long as you rush the finished Grail however, you wouldn't be losing out on too much AP early.
    All in all, I'd count Grail as a more defensive option on Swain, since it provides more MR as well as allowing him to spam his CC and sustain harder with his ult, in exchange for not doing as much damage early compared to a Needlessly Large Rod or a Haunting Guise. Chalice would, in theory, be a great item to prioritize if you're falling behind and really need to be able to farm as much as possible.

  • #49 Aldrahill

    Thank you for that well thought-out and considerate reply; your reply is the type of thing comment threads are for!

    I have indeed read the article when it came out, but thanks for bringing it to my attention again. I guess I just wondering to see if people would immediately jump down my throat for suggesting it :P

    Many thanks again for your input, I do indeed like your suggestion of taking it as fall-back item if I'm behind. I presume I'd build it after I finish my RoA? Or perhaps after my Catalyst?

  • #50 JioDerako

    I forget where I saw it (I believe it was an Annivia guide), but I think the usual, if you're going to build both RoA and Grail, would be to finish RoA, then Grail straight after.
    How you get there depends on preference though, I'd say; going Chalice > Catalyst > RoA > Grail might be a good idea, since Catalyst isn't nearly as good early as it used to be after the nerfs to it, while a Chalice will keep you in-lane farming for longer, thus speeding up your final build (though it does still slow down the RoA).

    I'm not an expert on Swain, actually not even a big fan of him at all, so I don't know for sure which works better for him; I'm quite certain that Chalice is a better investment than Catalyst, the question is how much does he need either one early, or if it might be better to get the Blasting Wand first instead. I've been seeing that suggested more often now, that the Blasting Wand is more helpful early than the Catalyst is when you're building towards RoA.

  • #51 JioDerako

    Oh, and it was just suggested to me (by my brother, who plays mid much more often than I do) that generally speaking, Grail and RoA tend to get in the way of each other when building early, so in most cases, if you're building one, you drop the other. It may be possible to go right for Grail first and drop RoA entirely; Grail is covering all of the mana components of RoA, essentially, so the main thing is the health it provides (Grail is giving a fair bit of MR, but that's not quite the same as straight-up bulk).
    Liandry's might come into play here, providing some of that health, or perhaps better yet, Rylai's could do the same (nice combination with Liandry's later, too). You're striking off into a brand new build at this point however, geared towards maximum utility but at the loss of some damage. (Rylai's+Liandry's turns Swain's ult into AoE slow and %burn, but it takes a lot longer to finish all that compared to just a RoA.)

  • #52 Aldrahill

    I do actually like the idea of building Athene's + Rylais + Liandry's instead of an RoA... Less tanky overall, but a lot more slow and more consistent damage through Liandry's...

    Thanks again for this, I will think on it.

  • #46 plagios2

    skill orders need fix they miss up

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